Double Fine Productions CEO Tim Schafer has touched the development of a lot of video games, so it’s natural that he’s hard-pressed to pick a favorite. But his answer is ultimately driven by one of Schafer’s most closely-held values: the importance of being present with other people.
I’m asking Schafer about his favorite projects at an opportunity ripe for reflecting on his industry impact: DICE Summit 2023 in Las Vegas. We spoke just hours before he was inducted into the Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences Hall of Fame, in recognition of his over 30-year impact on the games industry. This honor puts him on a roster of past winners including Ed Boon, Connie Booth, Bonnie Ross, Todd Howard, Hideo Kojima, and many others.
Beginning with The Secret of Monkey Island at LucasArts up to his most recent work, Psychonauts 2, Schafer’s directly been involved in the development of over 25 games. Via Double Fine, he’s helped publish almost ten more, and within Double Fine itself has helped support the development of still more than that. And then there are all the games Double Fine has supported via Day of the Devs over the years, an annual festival of game demos that has helped spread the word about countless indies.
At first, to answer my question about his greatest career highlight, Schafer proceeds to name Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, and Psychonauts before admitting he's just going to name every game he's ever worked on.
So I nudge him a little more. Surely, in over 30 years, something sticks out? He arrives at probably two of the least-known games he's ever worked on: Double Fine Happy Action Theater and its sequel, Kinect Party, both Kinect games for the Xbox 360.
"What I love about those, if you've ever seen them, is that there's no barrier to entry, so your grandparents can walk in the room and just all of a sudden be playing this game," Schafer says. "And it's this augmented reality-type game where we put kids and fill their living room with lava, and they dance around…and I still put it on all throughout my daughter's life. I know she had a birthday party, and kids still stand in front of it and scream and yell and jump around. I've never made anything that I can visibly see the joy on people's faces when they play it, because adventure games usually play like this…”
Schafer makes a very serious, focused face, as if concentrating very hard on playing a game.
"Not very joyful. I mean people are enjoying it. But this Kinect game, watching them jump around and being happy, and people who normally would not think of this as gamers. It has just been something I'm really proud of, and I don't think many people know about that game at all."
More, Weirder Games
The theme of accessing joy and creativity by physically being in community with others was one that ran both through his DICE Summit Fireside Chat keynote with Outerloop Games co-founder Chandana Ekanayake, as well as our interview. When I ask him about the biggest changes to how games are made he's witnessed in his career, he lightly touches on voice-acting and 3D before thinking of how developers communicate with communities, and the ways in which that allows them to witness the joy people feel through the games they make…as well as all the other emotions.
"We used to have print magazines and just not talk to anyone except for our conferences. Maybe we'd meet someone who played our games once, or we'd wait a month for a review in Computer Gaming World, and now it's just interface all the time. Before we launch a game, during, and after we launch a game, just talking to people about it. It's so interactive, in a way, with our communities. Those are big changes, our relationship with our community. Especially because we've done crowdfunding, that changes your relationship with your community where they're like your patrons in a way. They always were, but...it's challenging.
"We've done it twice, but I don't know if it's necessarily a good fit for games, just because games take so long to make that people... it stresses them out to wait so long for their goods to be delivered, you know what I mean? But it was great to get past the gatekeepers a little bit and say, 'We do want adventure games again. We do want platformers and stuff.' So, it'll continue to evolve, I think."
One of the other biggest changes for Schafer personally was Double Fine’s acquisition by Xbox, a move that opened a number of new doors for the studio. As Schafer puts it, Double Fine historically tends to make “weird” games that tend to be difficult to find funding for. But with Xbox’s support, he’s not only had the funding, but he’s also had the boon of Xbox Game Pass to put those weird games in front of people who might not have ever tried them at full price.
“Game Pass lets us reach people who maybe would've been too nervous to drop 70 bucks for a physical copy of a thing,” he says. “But they see it and it looks really compelling and they're like, ‘Oh, I'll just download it and play it.’ That's a great place for us to be, so that changes us, and I think it'll lead to us being more like ourselves and more creative…It's allowed me to move forward projects that I had on the back burner, thinking, ‘I would never be able to pitch this to a publisher. It's just too strange-sounding.’ And now we can make those games, so they're going to get weirder, that's all.”
It’s worth pointing out that Schafer isn’t referring to Psychonauts 2 here – it was already in development when Double Fine was acquired. But he does add that Xbox’s support meant being effectively asked, “How would you finish Psychonauts if you had resources?” His answer was to put the boss fights back in and polish it far more than he’d been able to otherwise, and that’s what the team did.
Instead, Schafer’s “weirder games” remark is referring to Double Fine’s future output, which he’s not able to talk about just yet. He does confirm that the studio still does internal game jams, and he’s got a whole list of game ideas in his head that he wants to work on some day. I ask him if he’s thinking of revisiting some of his old games at any point, and while he’s not opposed to the idea entirely, that’s not what he’s up to right now.
“Starting with Broken Age, we were like, ‘Let's make an adventure game again,’ which is kind of a nostalgic thing to do,” he says. “And then we started remastering all the old adventure games, Grim, and Day of the Tentacle, and Full Throttle. And then we made a sequel to Psychonauts, which is considered officially a retro game now. I saw someone was discussing CRT TVs and which are the best ones, and then Psychonauts was their demo. And I'm like, ‘Oh, it's a retro game.’ We've been looking towards the past and taking care of our past, and archiving it and preserving it in these remasters. But now, we're really excited about doing all new stuff. We're doing new games in the studio, and everything is 100% new.”
Schafer is also still playing lots of games despite, he says, the temptation to stop playing as he gets older and busier raising kids. He’s been playing Cult of the Lamb a lot, and Stray, and he tells me he wants to get around to finishing some of the big blockbusters like Elden Ring…but keeps coming back to Vampire Survivors. He’s excited for The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom too, and says that its predecessor Breath of the Wild is probably his favorite game of all time (that he didn’t make). It supplanted Super Mario 64, which influenced Schafer’s shift from making point-and-click adventures to 3D adventures, though he cautions that fans probably shouldn’t expect him to draw similar inspiration in the future and make anything as big and ambitious as Breath of the Wild.
Schafer briefly ponders doing something like Animal Crossing – a game about tending and caring for something – but Nintendo already nailed that, he says, so maybe not. Above all, whatever Schafer does next, his biggest concern is keeping his creativity alive.
“There's types of games I would like to make, and it's more like I think the biggest effort is, I've always been mindful of not losing that fire in your belly. How do you tend that, how do you stoke that? How do you not suffocate that, how do you let in enough air? All these metaphors for, ‘How do you make sure you still love what you do?’ And it always involves moving towards a project that excites me the most, because there's a lot of pressure to get pulled into maybe business development or other areas of your job that are important, but will make you wake up one morning and that fire's gone. So, I've always avoided that, so I would just maintain pursuing that, and just always chasing what inspires me and everyone at Double Fine.”